Due to the sudden phone call of Mr Andy Ong from ERC today with regards to his reading of my blog, I decided to delete the Venessa Anne posting (because the response was louya) and make this posting the current one.
It will be all dedicated to the discussion of ERC’s legal action on a blogger, my blog ie.
As for those who do not know ERC, you can:
1. Check up through the internet;
2. Go to the sales pitch Mr Andy Ong mostly held on Wednesday.
Actually, the best is to go for the sales pitch if you picked up the time and address from ERC’s advertisement in Today, telling you should kick your jobs and sign up with the course and be an entrepreneur.
“Do you want to be successful…?” I’d always remember Andy Ong’s presentation to me during the sales pitch in the room of people.
Scope wants to be successful, but I don’t trust him anymore. And now, after paying the full fee, this Andy Ong is sending his lawyer after an unhappy customer.
This posting is dedicated to ERC’s threat to take legal action on a blogger in Singapore, who happens to be an unhappy consumer.
Not only the threat of legal action, he also claimed that I made veiled threats to ERC through his staff, that I harassed his female staff, that I was taking advantage of what situation, that I am arrogant, that I bla bla bla in our email communication. I don’t care if he is so influencial in Singapore.
Simply put, he can never be my mentor in entrepreneurship.
And obviously, he can never keep his part of the contract since I will not trust him again.
And today, he came calling demanding that I obliged or else he’d take legal action, and the deadline was within this day. He’s just too much. I am not a sandbag he can just punch anyohow~
Encounter: Scope Wants Justice.
It’s going to be interesting. Singapore ERC’s Andy Ong has visited this hilarious blog and decided to give me a call this noon. He told me politely “I don’t want to talk to you anymore…” Just as my battery gone flat. (Actually, the battery went loose.)
Knowing Mr Andy Ong, I decided to go back home right after delivery and gave him an email requesting him to email me the request to remove the mentioning of ERC here in the Blog. I even took the time to write to him, nicely. It was obvious, Mr Andy was working up his temper again.
My due respect became arrogance… (?!)
He called me in the noon when I was carrying heavy loads of goods, fighting for time to unload at somewhere nearby some construction site at Tanglin Road, and all he wanted was to threaten to take legal action on my voicing out of unhappiness about ERC in the blog by an extremely unhappy consumer (Me lah~) with his service. That’s so like him.
After I took the pain to respectfully email him in reply, he alleged that I was arrogant?!
I don’t understand where have I been arrogant? And he claimed that I was determined to hurt them? Now… did he refund me? Nope. Did I sue him? Nope. So?
I may be a nobody. But I am feeling very unhappy now. This is Singapore, hailing service quality when a consumer can’t even vent out some frustration in his personal blog, which is designed for unserious blogging. Now, who is out to hurt again? Why? If Seiko’s product can’t work, you mean I can’t even say it is a waste of money? Or I should just keep this from the world?
Now, Mr Andy Ong has found a lawyer and will be taking legal action against a Blogger after Mr Philip Yeo did so a few years back. In this case of mine, it is even more ridiculous. It is between an unhappy consumer and a government linked ERC on a small blog which is written-for-written’s sake. So… The next Marytr has to be me.
So be it. I paid $1680 to ERC who has nothing better to win a consumer’s approval but to resort to legal action on his non-serious blog. And it wants to teach me how to be an entrepreneur…
Now I am waiting for his lawyer’s letter to share with you guys and gals. I have gone to my MP on this before I left for China, disillusioned with Singapore. Mr MP wanted facts. Now he can have alot of facts.
How can I have such a mentor???
No. Whatever proposals I got, I am not going to ERC, to Andy Ong. He asked us to trust him back then during his sales pitch. I had. I even paid the money in full. It is now very obvious that he cannot be my mentor in entrepreneurship in this manner. He should not keep my fee.
If I obliged, then oil companies can sue me if I complain their fucking oil bloody expensive and I use my hero bicycle instead~!
This happens in Singapore, today… in the 2007, when MM said people should return to Singapore and they will be taken care of. Now even a consumer cannot talk about his frustration over a paid service in this tiny island. (Laughing…)
It seems that I am right. That’s how caring it is?
Aspiring people should try to move overseas.
I am very tired about hiding or running away as and when a bully comes by. If Andy Ong insists on legal action on a non-serious blogger’s blog, anything can happen anyway. If my promised pinnacle by ERC is in the jail or what, I have paid for it.
And I tell the government of Singapore… aspiring people should find a place elsewhere in the globe for themselves. Singapore is just too dangerous. You can’t even express unhappiness over service bought, what else?
Life… it is just a continuous chain of struggles… in Singapore.
Wait for the update then. It’s a prime case in Singapore’s blogging environment… plus (laughably) a drama between an unhappy nobody consumer Vs a very rich service provider, in this education hub of Singapore.
I’d wear brown in court if I am allowed to.
It is going to be a landmark case. I suppose Andy’s lawyer must be very excited about this.
She Vs a nobody blogger. How sweet… …
How Valid Is This Case.
No doubt lawfirm S could send in a letter in behalf of Andy Ong. But whether Andy and ERC has a case is another issue. The case is not on whether ERC will refund Scope, but on Andy’s unhappiness over my unhappiness with him.
However, Andy is the service provider, and Scope is the customer. That’s the basic relationship between ERC, Andy and Scope.
And read ERC’s communication to public via ads. Must read~!
In such a manner, the service provider is unhappy that the user makes noise. I really do not understand if Andy has even consulted Carrie before he made the phone call.
If Andy Ong can succeed in this, then Seiko Watch can just have a Law department instead of a customer service department and repair workshop. Carrie (Andy’s lawyer)should understand that Seiko can just sue whomever made noise (words of mouths), and there shall be no need for customer service nor repair. Hence, if Carrie sends this lawyer letter, she is telling the world that Scope cannot make noise or do something about his unhappiness over what he perceived as bad service.
Is this a defamation? Nope. Besides, blog cases have never really being fought in Singapore’s court. And between an unhappy consumer and an unhappy service provider, who has the case?
Consumers paid service providers to be satisfied. When consumers are not happy because the providers won’t deliver, isn’t it more obvious that the service provider do something to make consumers happy?
Otherwise, why should consumers pay?
Now I consider Andy’s demand and this case ridiculous. As the blog shows, the aspiring Scope had started from zeal with ERC to utter disappointment, and total disillusion upon wanting a full refund.
Rationally, Carrie should understand when a consumer is unhappy, and he had tried all the ways to get off the boat but met with such things as excuses and allegations, he’d certainly make noise. This is a simple consumer case, not a defamation case.
If a parent complains to Straits Times that the school her daughter is in sucks, will the school hire S lawfirm and threaten the parent to shut up or face legal action for defamation?
This blogger is discussing this case now. Anyone in the law society wants to render this discussion to ’shut up’ by slapping a threat of legal action?
Andy is too much. I was an aspiring man signing with a fee fully paid to ERC. And at this very moment, I can confirm I am right: He is unfit to be my mentor. Because if I run a big company like Volvo Beijing, I don’t go around suing consumers who made noise.
There might be a contract saying you must pay in full after the first drive of my Volvo, but if I can’t deliver that Volvo eventually, should I not refund my customer?
If I have known ERC is like this, do you think I’d pay a single cent to sign up? Carrie, is this not sounding rational to you?
This case is very funny. Besides, filing against a blog itself is already a venture into a new scope of laws. Fair judgement here, if Scope must oblige by reasons of legal action instead of other justification… We will have a problem. REACH will have a problem. Various forums and blogs will also have a problem. The impact is going to be huge.
I have emailed Andy. If he or his lawyer can justify whichever is unfair in this blog, I will be more than happy to amend. But first… whenever the customer is unhappy or puzzled, what he needs is good customer service and reasonable answers.
Andy wrote “I hope you’d appreciate my efforts” in his book issued to me. I really don’t know how I can appreciate such efforts of his. He has driven one zealous aspiring man into a total disillusioned, and he is threatening to sue or take legal action on him.
When I was going to Beijing… I was already prepared for the worst. What makes Andy think that I will back off like this? I saw death just in front of me in China, I didn’t even shake.
Andy, I am utterly disappointed with you. And to think that you have pushed me again and again and again. I take your threat seriously. But you have never taken me seriously.
March 7, 2008 at 2:09 am
I’ve attended the seminar and thinking seriously to sign up with his value proposition of money back guarantee. Came across your blog. Now, i’m having doubts on his sincerity. Is the “course fee” $10K money back guarantee for real or total BS? According to his promise, if the partner achieved 90% attendance and recruited at least 1 student, he will refund the money. Can you give more details on your case so that I can make a more informed decision.
March 7, 2008 at 6:27 pm
The program I took was the BAP. There was many promises esp the funding part back then. Now a couple of us actually went for the funding which was not that readily available, and by the last session, the promise of a good idea for us to start out with many many ideas actually was a disappointment.
Actually, there were many who turned out for its presentations, and plenty of sceptics. I was one of those few who ‘bought’ the presented pressence of Kenny Yap, plus the government agency’s logos, and trusted Andy Ong.
Now look at how Andy treated people who trusted him. He even has the audacity to threaten to take legal action.
I can only confirm that ERC is actually going out in looking for student, no matter its ‘performance’ has not seemed to be drawing that much volume it needs. You see, if ERC is really that good, words of mouth would have spreaded and Andy would never even need to advertise, cos everyone becomes successful and will draw friends in, flooding ERC.
If Kenny Yap was not in the sales doc, and the government agencies were not listed, and SM Goh was not mentioned, I won’t even bother to sign up with ERC.
I hope you can supply more details. It’s very vague here you mentioned since after this incident, I have completely distrust this agency.
Right now, the government is looking to take control of this sector. I am also waiting for me fee and apology.
If you are sincerely thinking of taking up, here’s one way since you have come across the experienced: let the others go ahead, and see if they really make the money.
For us, the terms back then (according to some pros I talked to) are actually against the Unfair Trading Act itself. But CASE, as one of us had approached, wasn’t quite useful. Hence the government involvement now is highly appreciated, if it works for us consumers.
Now since, Andy Ong mention this name Carrie Ho, a lawyer; if she took the ERC offer, you may ask her how it goes.
March 13, 2008 at 8:59 am
Wow. Thanks for sharing this information scope.Good thing I did not sign on the spot. I went for the Wednesday talk after seeing the advertisement in the newspaper. He told the group of people that he would waive off the license fee of $20k. Then someone requested for waiver of the $10k course fee which he agreed upon the condition that there is 90% attendance and 1 student enrollment and that this offer is valid only for today..Anyway, I must say that after attending his talk, I was motivated and even though after this, I will not join the course, it was something of a wake up call for me.tks
March 13, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Zebra,$20k?!! Wow!
Anyway, I am aware of him offering a percentage commission to pple looking for (foreign) students. Most schools I know are doing something like that. Just call the schools and inform them you have someone/s who’d like to enrol, you can get comm readily!
Out of curiousity… how many of those group of yours actually took up the scheme???
OMG.
Course fee is $10k?! Zebra, what is being offered that is worth $10k???
As one of the sceptics now, I am wondering… If this scheme is partnered by the government, and it makes almost riskless money, you can imagine the loads of grassroots, MPs, their relatives, friends… will flood to ERC! ^.^
Whether you are motivated or not, that’s your issue. But you have shared something indeed.
As the state papers have indicated, the government is handling this sector, say, about 2009. Investigations on such ’schemes’ and relevant departments should be on the way. Our role is merely bringing up the awareness for the authority. Of cos, if we can recover the losses, and for me to get my rightful apology, that’d be best.
Why don’t I waive you off $1m if you can bring me a pack of students worth $2m in comm? Interested?
The nature of this ‘condition’ is rather interesting.
If you buy one product from a Tshare coy, and you got ‘waiver’ by introducing members… sounds like… sounds like…
Sounds like what???
Certain happenings shouldn’t happen in education…
Come 2009, I hope the government can yield something. Wondering can it be done… Let’s hope.
Scope.
December 4, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Hi Scope, can you email me more on the details about ERC and the “unfortunate” case you came across? Thanks.
December 5, 2008 at 12:22 am
ERC has made news recently in a scandal, and even Andy Ong’s details were splashed in a forum online. Calls for its (now ERCI) closure was also seen. The details of ERC schemes or the ‘unfortunate’ case can be observed from ads by ERC (which Andy Ong claimed he personally did those words).
This case has been refered to the government. Your request for further details should be made to the relevant authorities. This sector is a big problem. CASE’s role is under ‘revision’, and rogue institutes are probably getting the ax coming 2009.
Parties you may be interested in would includ:
1. Those who attended Andy Ong’s ‘free’ seminar/pitch;
2. Employees no longer with ERC;
3. Its customers.
If you get to read the emails… that’d be hot. LOL~ There is also this interesting ‘Roy occurence’ (or something) which might interest you as well. Adam Khoo was an associate with ERC; Maybe you should go to him. Check googles, Adam Khoo has a blog.
If you want to know more, I’d need your identity. Do understand that ERC’s Andy Ong has the audacity to threaten his customer with legal action. This becomes a government’s issue since CASE had been exposed to be pretty sleeping. You’d hence need to obtain more details from the relevant authorities if you need them.
Rgds.
Scope.
December 30, 2008 at 4:07 pm
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January 15, 2009 at 8:39 pm
What an education HUB! It is quite sad that the government people got associated with them. But waz news?
I read the papers, and I also got shocked.
January 16, 2009 at 4:02 am
Hi ScC!
It’s thus probably best that since government people are involved, government deals with them for us. LOL~
Minister Ng should have the precious chance to do something for Singaporeans. I look forward to his efforts.
This case has been refered to the government for about 1~2 years! Alongside with the Preston storm… It should be optimistic here since we have a talented, wisely chosen, uncorrupted and caring government with great governance… LOL~
Thanks to the MSM, they have provided good cover fire, and the spillover went online.
The rest is now up to the government to prove itself.
Scope.
April 8, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Hi,
how is the case now ?
i attend the seminar yest and interested to sign up..
Should i ?
April 9, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Hi Benny,
LOL~
You opened a wordpress account just to find out?
MOE is hiring the ‘pros’ to clamp on this sector (They should have done this long long back so people like myself don’t waste money on rubbish). ERC’s issues have been exposed more or less, and we can see the links they have ‘established’ with the Preston issue alone. Do you expect the government to proceed on without tracing them?
You know how long it took for MAS to move on Shine Empire (plus its various overseas activities) and for the government to trace Ren Ci (into its businesses and craps)?
It’s up to you of what your choice would be, but ERC obviously doesn’t care about methods, and we now know this is a rotten apple. This is one institute MOE must definitely have a look on. Since the government states 2009, and indication has it that it’s about towards the end of the year, we’d have to wait for while.
I don’t advocate those people to take up a class action suit against Andy Ong or ERC, because why should they when the government can deal with them? I mean, this is the government’s job, so don’t snatch it from them. I also don’t see why when we have other insitutes such as the more credible and established SIM that you need ERC? Your choice.
I don’t think MAS is allowing itself to go through those ‘get rich’ talks from Andy Ong and his associates to make Temesek even solid. It’s very embarassing for the government but all these do happen under its nose. So… About the case, it’s just let the government has a chance to prove itself.
Actually, you read its past sales documents sent to the Media to publish and those public pitches made… LOL~ You know what is misrepresentation? If MOE gives it and the associates a miss… something will be seriously wrong. Just my personal opinion.
Up to you. For me, I’d never trust that Andy Ong or those associated with him.
So what you sign up? $1680… for what? No pinnacles, a legal threat based on laughable grounds, and… LOL~ I don’t really care who you are, use your common sense. I signed up that time was because of the government agencies’ links to it. Now, I don’t even trust those agencies or government association anymore.
Have a nice day, Benny… or whatever.
Scope.
April 12, 2009 at 4:42 pm
i didn’t sign up for their wealth mgt programme but rather the BBA one and the same you, i was “overpromised and under-delivered”.
contradicting enough, i learnt that phrase in one of the modules which i am applying it in this case.
thought Andy Ong was too busy to bother about such matter. didn’t know he browse blogs too.
read his blog? he ends every entry with “Your Friend, Andy”. looks like it doesn’t apply in your case huh?
April 12, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Lynn,
That’d come under misrepresentation. It’s not a phase but a legal offence. As the recent case I’ve encountered at Sim Lim (now notorious for such cases), that owner told me the product would be 10,000:1 for the price I agreed to pay; yet it turned out to be only 700:1. I can’t use 700:1 for the intended purpose, so why buy? It was cheating or over-promised or under-deliver or whatever.
No contract can be based on immoral terms.
I am not sure about you but, maybe you love ‘friends’ who go around ‘over-promising and under-delivering’, and you also take people’s money for ‘over-promised and under-deliver’. Who knows?
Recently, Li Ao is also suing some Singaporeans for over-promising and underdelivering, or simply– cheating.
Read his blog for what? What pinnacles can he deliver other than legal threats? It’s pretty obvious even online that many people are angry with him. The most disturbing thing is with such large scale issue, the government has been idling for years. And it took so long for NKF, Sunshine Empire and even the Ming Yi to be checked. MOE is still hiring the officers for the job… But CASE has been obviously sleeping all those years.
I was pretty agitated by the Preston situation when CASE was around.
Would the government sign up for their wealth programme? This programme has been around before the crisis even starts, and from the Preston doctorate scandal, it has spreaded out into other wealth programmes by the ‘Dr’ who… I am most shocked that the government is allowing this to be happening under its talented nose.
If you take consumers’ money, you deliver properly. He’s not busy… He has the time to email me in his employee’s capacity, yet he has no time to read an email the China’s side sent me which I forwarded to him.
Contradicting enough…
My view on Andy Ong is hence very bad. Not only did this chap who goes around teaching people how to be entrepreneurs threaten to sue, he’s not honorable enough to surrender the fee paid to him. And worst, he can’t even email me in his own capacity but hiding behind his employee’s. Even in the last session with him, I’ve given him chances to ‘help me’ by approaching him, instead he made some ridiculous remarks in the class and left an hour earlier.
Subsequently he even dares to allege that I was finding small faults to want my money back and claimed I disturbed his girls when many times, even beyond lunch times, I couldn’t locate them because ‘they went for lunch’.
Problematic.
After the Preston issue blew, I get to read it after a month and checked ERC’s response… I am so utterly disappointed with this ‘mentor’. If this is how entrepreneurship is, I am not surprised how Diamond Energy Water could have made news in Hong Kong.
I am not surprised so many are angry with this ‘friend’. And I am so disappointed Kenny Yap and others are associated with ERC. Singapore, (eg) according to the Indonesians, was known to be better…
Over-promised and under-delievered… am I in India?
I’d never bother with private education service in Singapore after ERC’s disppointing encounter.
This sector is now well-known to be an infested ground. I seriously doubt 2009 will work wonders but MOE must clean up this sector asap. $1680 of consumers are hard earned money. They obviously paid for results, or they might as well pay those people selling magic stones.
People buy magic stones for the results, no results mean cheating.
Again, I am very disturbed as a consumer that these are happening under the nose of the clean and effective government for so many years to the point that consumers who paid hard-earned monies can be slapped by legal threats.
Is this still Singapore?
Lynn, I don’t expect you to agree with me. If you ask my honest view about this, after such encounter, what do you think?
I am hoping to leave Singapore in a few years, because I am utterly disappointed… It is not the same anymore. Such things are becoming pretty rampant. NKF was like this, Ming Yi that fucker is like this, Sunshine Empire is also like this, and that old cop who started YMCA was also like this! There are so many people starving down there, and this Abbot can still have time to fool around the accounts. Sunshine Empire, it made so much promises, but end up mostly empty… and it took so much money in the form of investments.
Why did I study so hard to get an hons degree when I can get a doctorate from Preston…? Why? Tell me why.
I thought Singapore is about meritocracy…
Lynn, I am very disappointed with Singapore.
Hopefully, I can chance upon some who really love the movies and join me in my course… overseas. You watched ‘Dragonball Evolution’? It’s crap, and it’s a crappy lotsa of investment to produce such crap… Why? Which is why I am looking for people honorable enough to make this industry better.
Have a nice day.
Scope.
April 13, 2009 at 6:08 am
There’s a lot of things/people that disappoint us coz we paint too nice a picture of them but alas, we fail to realise they are humans too, sometimes when we know the truth, it hurts even more so when the person is viewed as the rest as ‘holy’..
April 13, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Hi Pinkmiumiu,
I’ve never seen this guy as ‘holy’, but given all those government agencies’ association with them, I don’t expect so huge and many empty promises. LOL~ You should have gone for his pitch presentation to the public.
This guy is pretty egoistic but not really solid. And I am not talking about Preston, I am talking from my own experience. I seriously need support back then, and it was a regret we paid good monies for nothing of substance, but a complimentary legal threat. Hilariously, he told me when I tried to approach him that those China people cannot be trusted because they always talk big big.
Aiyah~ This guy…
Humans, I am also a human. Why can I be a good guy, and would be a more honorable entrepreneur if needs be, and he must go around doing such things for money? Look at the wave of angry voices online about this ‘arrogant’ chap. That was a description of him I caught online, even his IC number was put online.
To be fair, I am more disappointed about the problem growing so huge and the government actually did nothing for years so that another Scope may end up as victim.
If the government understands that selling magic stones are illegal, it’d be a strange thing why so many are associated in this operation.
Humans… Well, we have given this Andy Ong the chance of trust once. If he likes to do that to fellow Singaporeans, fine… Hopefully he won’t scream when the China counterparts do that to him.
It’s too long a widespread public issue… If this is how money is to be made… what is education to MOE? Why have those agencies even been associated with ERC? That’s my question. I thought the government is very standard. I was deeply disappointed when the ministry said in parliament: Those registered with MOE is not MOE’s problem…
Then whose problem’s that?
Then I am glad Minister Ng comes in, and Minister Lui also made it clear they will start doing something for this sector.
This is not failing to realise they are humans too; I am a human, I don’t do such things. When in MOE’s syllabus educates Singaporeans to do such things? Nowadays, look at Sim Lim and other places… even in the medical sector. They can’t be bothered about quality of services other than the money money money.
Singapore wasn’t like that. And now Indonesians are also complaining… So many craps are happening in Singapore! If this is the truth now, the government will have to do something about it.
Otherwise, don’t blame people for not wanting to stay in a mess.
Scope.
May 21, 2009 at 3:32 pm
The government to ‘prove’ itself?
It’s likely to be a pretty long love affair! Haha.
These people are shameless for so long not without a GOOD reason, Scope.
Rgds.
June 14, 2009 at 12:47 pm
SCC,
It’s the similar reply here: http://tomorrow.sg/archives/2009/06/07/great_singapore_sale__miracle_la.html#comment
‘…Protecting the interest of the public, protecting their properties (eg. $$$) and ensuring those profiting from such scams are stopped and encourage those who profit from proper activities are all the government’s role.
They do have better things to do, but everything concerning public interests must be taken care appropriately. Or how else can governance work, tell me?‘
There is obviously a good reason why I am leaving this to the government to prove themselves, or the next government or the next… Obviously, Durai, Ming Yi and a whole bunch of social pests are taken out not immediately.
It’s very obvious how the people see of the government, I can understand how people think as in Tomorrow.sg. But the government is not merely SM Goh or MM Lee.
It may well be very long an affair but whatever the GOOD reason it is, wrong means wrong.
Besides, Minister Ng is not reaching 2010 yet. LOL~ In this case, patience is better. You see, the accounts of NKF can be so different under established accounts company before and after. LOL~
This ERC issue is actually a whole string of issues that the government has to handle. It’s pretty big. It will go to show what they are made of. From what I learn of, the ball is starting to roll quietly.
For us, we let the government/s decides, and while people’s attitude on the government’s response is understandable, but in these days, global trade means it’s not just Singapore. It’s a pretty mobile world.
Shameless or not, it all depends on various decision makers’ abilities. We’d just watch the show with a popcorn. LOL~
Scope.
June 17, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Here’s one big news. It’s another case with private educators.
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/06/report-private-educational-provider-threatens-online-forum-with-defamation/
It’s pretty common nowadays in Singapore. Sounds like this James is a grassroot leader.
June 25, 2009 at 10:52 am
Already know lah~ I am wondering when will the govt still moving… LOL~
Education… once so holy, now so condemned. LOL~
August 8, 2009 at 5:25 pm
hi,
nice nice article. i am one of the unhappy ERC student from overseas.
I support you.
August 13, 2009 at 3:15 pm
It must be hard on you people to be among such craps. It’s just strange your native govt condemns Denmark administration while ends up with such problems.
Money can corrupt, never fails.
I support you as well. Take care.
August 18, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Hi Nini,
My apology on behalf of Singapore for having a problem spreaded overseas then. Regrets, regrets…
But it may be wonderful you can share your experience.
Hi Gian,
Everywhere got craps, the funny thing is when a super duper vacuum cleaner is running around with the pile of crap growing and thriving…
As usual… a lot of room to improve… a lot of room to improve… How ’strange’ things will become in Singapore is now hardly surprising.
But such large scale issue if now spreaded overseas is still… the government’s problem as I have long put it.
Hopefully, won’t be my problem in a few years time… ^.^
Scope.
October 8, 2009 at 3:36 pm
So what is the latest on the case ? Is there a case or only legal threat (lawyers letter?)
Another private education provider involved as charity sector is also making legal threats to online bloggers who are like unsatisfied customer, so I want to hear your update.
November 4, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Blasta,
We have discussed blogging cases in this blog. In a way, in the current regime, ridiculous stores could resort to legal threats in the hope of covering up their poor services or bad customer experiences from the public.
Put it this way, a customer is entitled to grade or comment and express his/her thought on the service providers in personal fashion via blogging. This is particularly so because of the status of Singapore as a tourism city.
And of course, there are other legal implications from blogging discussed already.
Further update may have to wait when the next PM comes by. LOL~
In any case, remember that consumers have their rights, and bloggers have their nature of operations. Special privilege is a principle, not a definite instruction. Lawyers are paid to side with their clients, but that doesn’t mean lawyers are always right. Otherwise, how can there be two lawyers fighting a case?
During my absence from Singapore for the past month, it seems that many are more particular in precedence than to understand that such tort cases are on case by case basis; which means, the merits defer case by case, and what you need to know is to understand the legal implications behind and not what precedence afore suggests.
The reason why I have left ERC’s case with the government is because this case is not so simple. Just as NKF’s case, PM changes, fortune changes. LOL~
Whether it is a legal threat or not, I’d never recommend commercial entities to replace their customer service division with a legal threat department… I mean this is common-sensically nosensical.
No, I don’t even have the lawyer’s letter. Frankly speaking, what do you think the demand from the lawyer should be? I mean, domestic legal framework doesn’t actually apply to blogging, unless everything down to the server and operation are solely contained within a legal framework of any state. This involves the necessity of understanding international laws, of which Singapore cannot dismiss itself from.
No matter, a local court’s conduct may at times… be confusing in itself in any state to at times force a judgement beyond its discretion. So the necessary thing you do is to first acertain your blogging status. If (say) you are blogging in the hope of being a credible news-station, then amitaba to you…
One important basis of defamation is that you must be a credible discreditor doing slandering– which causes effectual damages. Which also means, if you are a customer solely expressing your views, it should be ok in general.
Wrong means wrong, my dear. Even China has recently removed an unpopular Education MINISTER who was known to be involved in private education nosense… Who knows, of cos? But whether you have a case or not, just understand the rights of being a customer and in the legal framework of Singapore as a Singaporean.
And please, right and wrong is not just how you feel… especially in a cultural desert. So… if you are unsure, you may read this blog and decide for yourself.
Rgds.
Scope.
November 16, 2009 at 6:49 pm
hi,
i want to add few.
one of my friend told me that his 2yrs degree certificate (from ERC Institute) is not recognised by MOM to apply for EP. Employer is already ready to hire him.
the australian uni/institute is Not even in the recognised university list.
He doesn;t want to talk to concerned people, because they can do nothing on it.
what the hell..
November 18, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Hi Jeslyn,
In many of the cases in general so far, you can expect to find such ads (or sales promises):
Recognised top school from established Scope Institute Blogosphere that is prestigous bla bla bla, and coached by top lecturers from around the world…
Or…
Our Scope Institute is under what government initiative/cooperation and you can’t find a better degree for your prospects… and other bullshits.
Or in some cases…
Think of working in beautiful and prosperous Singapore by taking up Scope Institute’s prestigous programs and be XXX professionals today! (without telling you you can’t work with Student Permit and the costs of staying in Singapore, plus even rented lodgings are connected to such ‘prestigous institutions’).
Or… other lies or tactics or misleading things to mislead people for the sales. Pls check up the ‘Preston Degree scandal’ and find your clues.
I can only show you general issues with the private education sector in Singapore where students could be (forced) sold into prostitutions. (Check Singapore news reports) Ie. if you think useless or bogus degrees or programs which do not deliver what you are paying for are the only problems. LOL~
People study courses or pay for services for prospects offered, but I am not surprised insititutes in Singapore are offering junks which can’t even be recognised by MOM to obtain the EP, and pitch without limits.
What you can do is to make your unhappiness public so that agencies and other consumers can have a reference. If your case is real, as you have noticed by a simple search online, ERC’s personel details down to NRIC and company registration have been splashed out, your friend should furnish your own experience and rate the service openly and recommend others base on your experience.
You can choose to make a complain to Education ministry, SPRING (many such institutes are, regretably, springing from SPRING/EDB Singapore), but if you are a Singapore citizen, you can make a complain direct to the government.
But you/your friend must understand that inspite of losing hard-earned money and time on useless junks, it doesn’t mean that government will definitely do something now or do nothing forever. The charity fiasco in Singapore had only received major ’shaking’ after many many years, with a new PM.
It’s quite true. During our time, a couple of us have tried to approach (eg) CASE (check your newspaper and know how useless CASE has been on such issus), we know it can be pretty useless, or else how do you think institutes such as ERC can still sell such degrees and such plus making legal threats on customers under the nose of the ‘talented’ government?
Do you expect such institutes to tell buyers ‘My prestigous degrees are not recognised by MOM, pay me pay me so I can be rich and famous!’ and ‘You can talk to my lawyers about your unhappiness…’. LOL~
Your friend should help everyone by making open the issues he faced, otherwise given this vague scenario, we can only assess on general basis.
Our ministry of education had in Parliament hurrily claimed that they are irresponsible to this sector’s problems in Singapore. Hopefully, they will be responsible soon enough and we can hear something else in the parliament.
Nonetheless, I have heard of things regarding ERC in China as well. It’s seemingly spreading beyond boundaries already. So your friend’d not be alone.
I heard Obama is stepping in to protect consumers. Perhaps Singapore will also learn this, after learning how to charge $2 from savings under $500… LOL~
Well…
My apology to your friend that Singapore has… come to this state. But there are still bargains and honest shops in Singapore on various things. Hopefully the time and money wasted on the program not recognised by MOM won’t affect your friend’s working in Singapore. Well, sincere apology on behalf of Singapore to incur such unhappiness upon your friend.
Best rgds.
Scope.
November 18, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Justice needs to be bought, not brought.
Serve you people right paying for junks!
November 19, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Cleaners not working, how then?